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Frieza > Cooler
Topic Started: Apr 23 2014, 07:55 PM (1,579 Views)
StrawHatCrew
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I am looking for an in-universe explanation of why Coola was no match for Goku yet Freeza seemed to be doing really well against.

Without any of the Hax.

The Movie seemed to have happened not too long after the Namek Arc so Goku couldn't have been that much stronger.

For me it looks like

Spoiler: click to toggle


The way Toei showed the fight in the Movie it looked as if Coola really was weaker than Freeza despite saying that he is stronger.
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+ Emmeth
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StrawHatCrew
Apr 23 2014, 07:55 PM
I am looking for an in-universe explanation of why Coola was no match for Goku yet Freeza seemed to be doing really well against.

Without any of the Hax.

The Movie seemed to have happened not too long after the Namek Arc so Goku couldn't have been that much stronger.

For me it looks like

Spoiler: click to toggle


The way Toei showed the fight in the Movie it looked as if Coola really was weaker than Freeza despite saying that he is stronger.
Goku confirms he's something else. Nothing contradicts it.
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StrawHatCrew
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I know, but I mean just the fight(s) itself, they seem to make it look as if Coola is actually weaker.
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+ Kaboom
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In Movie 5, Goku is said to have gotten stronger since he returned from Namek.

Goku also directly notes that Coola is stronger than Freeza when he transformed.

So, yeah. Coola IS stronger than Freeza, but Goku's gotten stronger as well.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Cooler simply isn't going all out. I mean Goku didn't exactly give him time to power up. He slugged in the face and then a non-stop brawl ensued until they got out of the water. After that we see Cooler power up. The buff cooler we see before he transforms is his 100% power IMO.
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StrawHatCrew
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What I am trying to say is that even if Goku got stronger since Namek it couldn't have been all that much stronger since the Movie seems to have taken place not too long after Namek & the difference in the fights between Goku & Freeza & Cooler is huge. Freeza's actually matching up well with Goku whereas Cooler gets beaten around easily.

For normal viewers (who just watch the movies) it might look as if Cooler is weaker than Freeza, I think even I myself thought that as a child, before using the internet & being on forums.
Edited by StrawHatCrew, Apr 23 2014, 09:49 PM.
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Venato
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The Saiyan Hunter

StrawHatCrew
Apr 23 2014, 09:39 PM
What I am trying to say is that even if Goku got stronger since Namek it couldn't have been all that much stronger since the Movie seems to have taken place not too long after Namek & the difference in the fights between Goku & Freeza & Cooler is huge. Freeza's actually matching up well with Goku whereas Cooler gets beaten around easily.

For normal viewers (who just watch the movies) it might look as if Cooler is weaker than Freeza, I think even I myself thought that as a child, before using the internet & being on forums.
I should remind you a thing :

The Toei =/= Logic

The worst example remains MV13 :

Goku SSJ3, much stronger than Gotenks SSJ3 and Mystic Gohan. But even Gotenks (base) was stronger than Goku SSJ3. The movie take place only few months after Kid Buu's death.

Needless to search the logic in what Toei do. They have already tried to make us believe that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu.



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SSJ
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StrawHatCrew
Apr 23 2014, 09:39 PM
What I am trying to say is that even if Goku got stronger since Namek it couldn't have been all that much stronger
Can you prove this? He could have had Piccolo type gains (Kaio's planet) for all we know.
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StrawHatCrew
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All I am saying is that, that the movie didn't seem too far off the Namek Arc & there didn't seem to be any mention of him getting much stronger from Namek other than the comment from Master Roshi but even then he only says he got stronger but not by how much (so it looks like he wasn't all that much stronger than he was on Namek).
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SSJ
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It didn't seem that Piccolo vs Nappa and Piccolo on Namek were all that far apart either ;)
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StrawHatCrew
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Other than Nail's astonishment at Piccolo's power. ;)
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SuperSaiyan1993
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans

Yeah Toei is not good at making context explicit. This is what is needed here.

If one just saw the beginning of the Base Goku vs. Frieza fight, one might reasonably infer that Goku is slightly more powerful because he got more hits in.

However, it was revealed that Frieza was greatly holding back.

Cooler does the exact same thing as Frieza except instead of powering to 50%, he goes beyond 100% of his true form to a higher 5th form.

Cooler is the movie version of Frieza see:

Frieza saga: Goku and Frieza battle evenly --> Frieza Powers up (50%) and Beats Up Goku --> Goku turns SSJ and wins (eventually)

Movie 5: Goku and Cooler battle evenly --> Cooler Powers up (to 5th form) and Beats Up Goku --> Goku turns SSJ and wins (in a shorter period of time)

Edited by SuperSaiyan1993, Apr 24 2014, 12:13 AM.
We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.
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StrawHatCrew
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eventually > quickly
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SuperSaiyan1993
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans

Yes, I did not mean more easily but in a shorter period of time. Good catch.
We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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All it means is that 4th form cooler isn't that much stronger than 4th form frieza while goku is stronger than he was before. Also, the fight at first with base goku and frieza wasn't a massacre but there was still a huge gap because frieza was holding back. Same thing happened here. Cooler wasn't going all out and says he wanted to see the power that goku used to defeat his brother
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 24 2014, 03:22 PM.
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